Tomáš Horáček told the police about manipulated orders in the care. After his detention, Janek Kroupa interviewed him. This is the first time since the publication of what the accused contractor has given a larger conversation. In a statement to the police, he pointed to the vice-president VZP Hoňka and former deputy health minister Šnajdra (ODS). Radiožurnál also said he helped the current Minister of Health.
Did you hurt? Have you affected public procurement? I can only respond very widely to this. Because all the things you said are still part of the investigation.
Wait, you would confess. I have described de facto things that happened as they were.
Listen to Janka Kroup's interview with the entrepreneur Tomáš Horáček
So you have damaged and affected public contracts? I am currently accused of these two acts
And you can tell if you did it or is not it? You can describe the principle of how it worked? Can I say it generally because there are many public contracts. I do not mean much that has been affected in any way, but there are many that my companies have participated in. Public procurement is a very complex subject. It is not always the case that someone influences the assignment or maybe communicates the bid communication with the candidate, that is, the customer, that is, the customer.
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In other words, do you agree in advance who wins and sets the conditions for winning it? I wouldn't say it completely as you say. I can say a concrete example: The hospital chooses a supplier of certain IT technology and cannot formulate the specification itself. It is not always corruption. The fact that he wants, or that he gives advice on a specification with one of the candidates …
You say there is no corruption every time. Let's talk about situations where corruption is there. How it worked in case – and let's say the case you acknowledged. Choose the one you want . In my testimony, I have described several acts. Choosing a specific … In short, for example, I said that if a public contract for an item we could deliver was or was announced or assessed …
Maybe eating at Na Františku hospital? I can't talk about it right now because the investigation is still ongoing.
That does it anyway. But here I do not know what to say to you.
Linear Accelerators? It's not a job I would be, so I won't tell you anything about it.
That was the job you talked about. I have noted that some information about my testimony regarding the delivery of instrumentation has already been published.
How did you manipulate it? I would definitely not talk about manipulation, it sounds ugly and it is not really so. When the hospital wants specific instruments, it is not always a management decision. It is quite often the requirement for clinics, their leaders and users. In short, he / she agrees with a particular company and complies with the specifications on the basis of which the tender procedure is established. In other words, the company that will participate in the selection process sets the conditions for winning. She sets the conditions, but she could not make these conditions without the buyer's cooperation.
The hospital, respectively the director. Exactly. Director, management, but also individual users.
And what were you? You were not a hospital manager or an entrepreneur. Where have you been? Considering that I had healthcare contacts and been in the area for more than a decade, I was often asked to arrange for example a meeting with a hospital contractor and management. . "Minister Vojtěch, through lobbyist Horáček, examined the wages of a coalition partner's wife and Czech TV's money
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Is the hospital management coming to you and saying "dear Tomas Horacek, I would like to manipulate the offer now"? And you said "it's a good idea, should I find you a business"? Or was it the opposite of the company? What does this look like? It doesn't look as sharp as you describe it, but it may seem at first glance. For example, the hospital is interested in buying a medical device that it already has in the department.
On the one hand, it wants to receive employees, and on the other hand, it has the logic that the same technology already tested and preferred by the user is in a department. I was asked to just arrange a meeting between the contractor and the hospital management recently.
Like that? Have you done everything for altruistic reasons, because it was extremely important for patients to get this device? We are not talking about patients, we talk specifically about staff.
The point is probably, you made it for money. You, Tomáš Horáček. I, Tomáš Horáček, didn't do it for money in many cases.
And if you didn't get paid for it? If such a shipment went through my company, of course, my companies had a certain profit, which was in percentages. Usually it was up to five percent. In many cases, however, it was a kind of counter service within this system.
Have you then handed the money to hospital leaders? I'm sorry, but I can't talk about a particular case now.
But you confessed that you have passed the money. Sure, but this is part of an investigation that still runs, and I have to keep secret.
Okay, so let's talk about your feelings about giving money. Did you worry? Of course it is not standard. On the other hand, you are currently part of a system and are responsible for large companies with a large number of employees. Now I understand of course that it was not kosher.
And of course you have improved, let's skip this part. Let's pay money. When did you make the money, how did you do it? I thought the money wasn't in plastic bags today. I definitely have no millions in my bags.
That's not true. You admitted that you passed on millions. You say millions and you go into hospital directors …
No, you also carry millions to insurance companies. The moment we have drawn up a business plan within the company that was useful to the logic of the issue …
Wait, you still run away from the situation I want to continue. You go to a meeting and you have millions of dollars somewhere in the bag. Are you afraid of the moment? I'm sure it's not standard, and it's definitely not something I feel good about. On the other hand, when you have to follow certain rules of the game in a way, otherwise it would fall out of it, it is unfortunately a bad thing, but I think it is necessary.
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Are you ashamed? I am ashamed and therefore I was relieved at the moment when I put these things to the right. It bothers me that I am constantly noticed as a central figure, but it is not. I did not decide on these non-standard terms and I definitely did not decide on bribes. I just went to the existing system.
You would be involved in arranging the Derma Clinic to get insurance contracts. From what I told the police, if I understood correctly, you contacted Šnajdr with Hrno Hoňko, who was VZP's assistant, and they worked it out together. You had to give money. Is it true? Again, I must say that I am bound by confidentiality and I cannot answer the question, was not angry.
I was most interested in the situation that the two argued for who was allowed to bribe. . The usual situation is not, but I would not want to comment on this in view of the ongoing investigation.
This situation is one thing interesting. You are very active in this case. On the one hand, you enter a company, on the other hand, you arrange Šnajdr (Marek Šnajdr, a former ODS deputy and a deputy for health care) and Hoňek (Petr Hoňek, vice VZP) to make your business successful. You don't seem to be an insignificant mediator and victim of the system, as you say. You ask me about something I can't answer.
I would like you to describe me your role. Who were you When you sort all cases, you can see that they have one thing in common. On the one hand, there is the management, on the other hand there are some suppliers. And between these units, Tomas Horacek goes as a smelly because of course he is very hard-working. Here he arranges, sends here, negotiates, solves tender documentation, here he gives some money. You can't say you're a victim of the system. You were an integral part without which it would not work. I don't think so. When I disagree with any of the rules of the game, a completely different supplier will approach them.
Forgive me, this is a strange logic: "If I do not steal rolls in self-service, someone would steal them." It doesn't work that way. I didn't mean to say it. I wanted to say that I am not a person who decides what to do and how much.
"I took it personally"
Let's go to a thing. How well do you know with the Minister of Health? I have known Adam Vojtech (YES) since he was secretary at the Ministry of Finance, so probably from 2014.
Have you also acted together personally? Yes, we traded together several times in person. I think there have been dozens of meetings between us, especially when he was involved in health care. We probably had the most common contact between 2014 and 2016.
What happened to you when the health minister started calling hospital directors to know you and be in touch with you? I admit I took it personally. We are definitely no friends, but we have worked together: We have discussed many health issues and been discussed with a number of people who initiated it in health life. After he started calling the director out of my cooperation with the hospitals, his actions were disappointed.
Mr. Horáček, I'll show you some emails now. Do you remember them? I don't know how you came to them, but these are the emails that prove my communication with the current minister. So, I remember them.
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These emails are that you find out for the minister and ask questions according to law 106, for example on Czech television. Do you remember? The then secretary Adam Vojtech asked me to provide information from the hospital environment. I will express it specifically on an example I remember well. He wanted, for some investigations, to find out how the units in each hospital are used. Whether they are used for what they were taken for and under what conditions they were taken.
He also wanted to know if there was little or much equipment for that region or location. I therefore believe that the vast majority of the information he wanted to have earned him for better care. De facto knowing how the system works.
He gave you the order "dear Tomas Horacek, send questions with 106 and find out this information"? That was the order? The order was definitely not. If we talk about this case …
I'd rather talk about two other cases. I'll just tell you. He asked me to arrange data from hospitals based on certain parameters. Specifically, for example, the types of devices, their location, their prices, and their usage. He then compiled an analysis to see how the units are used in individual care facilities.
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I would be interested in two other issues. First of all, I would be interested in the first question about Czech television. (team) 106 only with Czech TV. I gave him his request to his then lawyer, Dr Rydlová, who personally or through his colleague, I do not remember, sent the questions.
Why didn't he do it himself? I have no idea you would have to ask him.
It was at a time when his boss Andrei Babiš was in conflict with Czech television if I remember well. I can't remember it, but I don't exclude it. But it's rather a question for Mr Vojtěch.
The second question I would like to know was to Mr Němeček's wife. You asked about her salary, I guess. I did not ask. Mr Adam Vojtech asked to find the current salary. The hospital would not publish salary. These questions were submitted by Dr. Rydlová after a very non-standard refusal to reveal salary.
The hospital referred to the Personal Data Act. I know Dr Rydlová sent in a trial, but I don't remember exactly. Finally, the court decided that the hospital had to provide this information. Occasionally it was at a time when I was charged, which is a bit of a paradox. I only have this information out of roughness.
Contact as a counter service?
Why did the secretary, later Minister Vojtěch, not ask for it? Why did you do that for him? I don't know, it's a question for him. No way.
No Type? No Type
Counter Services? No
As you have arranged for him and him for you. I have an impression of how we talked about it, you had a good reason to do something for it. I don't think he would do anything for me, as for Tomas Horacek.
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Who did you join? I remember the case you were talking about now. He contacted the then director of the state printing firm who had never been used.
So can you understand that you helped him with law 106 and also gave you a portfolio of his contacts? You can understand it, but it's not because he gave me two contacts and I didn't use them.
Why did you help him? By that time until 2014 he came to me as a man who has
And you wanted to kiss him? I definitely didn't want to kiss him, but I helped him orientate and discuss a lot of things.
In addition, did you drive between hospitals and suppliers if I remember correctly? Between hospitals and suppliers I have been driving since 2015 because all business owners and entrepreneurs have to run between them.
You ran out when you were arrested or not? You can say that.